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Post by Vable on Sept 28, 2006 10:30:56 GMT -5
So I was reading through Complex website, and it looks like after the 5.4 release their will be no more updates.
I'm kinda bummed about that. It would seem then, that the Vagyr are going to be left just as they are.
I have a developer account with Relic, but not the know how to truely dig in and edit, nor any of the needed 3d software.
Maybe we should try to reverse engineer some of the work that has been put into making complex what it is, and then apply some of those technics to the Vagyr.. I know for one, I'd like to see the Vagyr 'complexed' so that they are not at such an advantage over the Hiigaran, while still retaining their particular 'style' of gameplay. Plus Maybe a new ship model or two, though nothing to really make them 'more' powerful. Just a few things so that the Vagyr are more interesting.
Bummes me out that they won't be working on any more mod upgrades. Though, at least if we do the work ourselves, we'll be able to include our own maps. I don't think Grant has ever played on any of the maps I've designed. I remember Laken and Garrett both were rather fond of them though.
Anyways. Food for thought.
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Post by Vable on Sept 28, 2006 19:16:27 GMT -5
Just tried Hiigaran vs 2 expert Vagyr (again).
This time attempted to quick kill the first, and hyperspace to safety.
Died horribly. Let me state this. The computer is a cheating bastard. haha.
Somehow, the early game didn't go as well this time, and just as I was finally starting to engage the first Vagyr's mothership, here comes the calvary from the Other Vagyr force. I'd had some bad luck early on, so lost my carrier/crew module. So I had to break off my attack and hyperspace out.
'Okay' I think, this will buy me time..and I've slowed the first Vagyr down enough that I'll be able to deal with him. This would have been true, had not the computer, without any probes or means of intel on my position somehow manages to 'exactly' pin point where not only my MS is, but where my carrier and all my Refineries were...which I had used waypoints to send to the far reaches of the map, on a continual circle pattern.
Needless to say, the fact that I had sent my auxilery vehicles out to the distant reaches of space made little difference. They sent corvettes and frigates en masse. It was retarded. sigh.
Anyway, perhaps next game I'll get them. Hard as hell though this is. haha.
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Post by grant on Sept 29, 2006 8:08:25 GMT -5
Well I just played a game as Hiigaran vs. a team of 2 vayger (1 expert and 1 hard) it was a difficult game but I pulled it off...I only used Vetts and Caps. (No platforms) The only vetts that I used were the mine layers and mineguns. I used lots of mobile refineries in the begening to act as my fighter/vett defence and the anti vett/frigget missiles that you get on the mothership helps to take out those two (it can be build after the research division has been built on the research station).
I have still yet to beet 2 expert vayger as hiigaran
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Post by Vable on Sept 29, 2006 10:56:00 GMT -5
Good work man.
So details? What map was it on? Did you go mobil with your mothership at all? Early or late in the game? What was the turning point? Did you kill either of the computers early, or build up and kill them back to back? Did you keep all your production ships together?
Also, on the minegun/minelayers... do they each have a 100 mines max they can lay (exsisting at one time), or do they share the 100mine hardcap?
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Post by grant on Sept 29, 2006 11:49:06 GMT -5
Ok bit by bit here, Mine Layer – There is no limit with the number of mines that each can lay that I am aware of; however, they only last so long then they disappear.
Minegun – When upgraded it has the automatic mine laying system that when ever they engage in a battle they release the mines which are good against fighters and vetts. The minegun vette fights normal and the laying of the mines donsn’t hinder it’s fighting capability.
Now the battle: I did go mobile with the mothership (I think you pretty much have to in complex with hiigaran)
I played on Epopea 2 (4 Players) map and here is how I started:
Build 1 resource collector (total of 8) for my starting asteroid field (it can hold 7 collectors at once) Build Harvest control mod & advanced sensor array Build 2 mobile refineries Build 3 scouts to scout out the enemy base and take out any probes and other scouts Keep one refinery to my starting asteroid field and send one to the closest asteroid field that is in the opposite direction of the two enemies. Build 12 resource collectors and send them to the other field (which can hold 11 collectors at once) Build 4 probes and place them strategically Build 4 mobile refineries send 2 to each asteroid field Build capital ship facility Build a research station Build 10 more refineries to keep with my mothership as an escort Slowly move my mother ship to the nearest enemy computer When the enemy sends ships to attack my asteroid fields I use my scouts to pull them to my mothership (given this is only a tactic that works on computers but hey...) When my research division is built on the research station I then build a defense control tower, then the missile defense system, then fire control tower, then hyperspace modual. Build crew station Build carrier When I have my since station completed I research mine gun and mine layer vetts (after resource research of course) Build destroyer I just slowly move to the enemy killing what I come across. When I get to the flagship I lure out their ships and kill them then move in and take out their flag ships engines and hyperspace modular if it has one.
Then just build up destroyers and take out the other enemy. I used the minelayers to defend my recourses from frigets and destroyer attacks. And mine gun vetts to defend my destroyers from bombers.
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Post by Vable on Sept 29, 2006 18:41:34 GMT -5
Interesting tactic. It appears you build your research station very late in the game. I wish we could time it and see how the stats work out over a 30, 45, 60 minute span into the game. I tend to build the research station first thing, then a refinery, then additional harvesters to fill up the patch, and then on to the 2nd patch. Though I can't confirm which way is better by the numbers, so its definitly good to hear of a different approach. Now the scouts used as lures to pull enemies forces to your MShip. hahahah. that owns. Fishing for enemies. LoL. Hillarious. I haven't ever tried that myself. Though versus the computer that definatly sounds like a very good way to control the battle. Which is very much the key to winning. Good going
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Post by grant on Sept 29, 2006 20:07:02 GMT -5
Yeah...I realized I was in trouble when I saw them heading to my collectors so I fished for them...worked graet.
As for the building the researchstation later, I use to build it faster but I think this way works better, and I never run out of money.
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Post by grant on Oct 2, 2006 7:58:04 GMT -5
I am having to revisit my strategy of using mobile refineries as my only early defensive unit (other then the mothership) when I go against 2 experts. It just isn’t enough to withstand their firepower. I am debating what to get (I need more anti fighter/vett firepower) so I am now considering the gunship vett, since I am already using that module. This is of course in conjunction with my mobile refineries. I also think that I may be devoting a little bit too much to economy early in the game, I think I need to perhaps only build 2/3 as many resource collectors.
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 2, 2006 9:13:41 GMT -5
Grant,
For H (hilgaaran) I can usually get away with building 3-5 gun vettes or the fighter equivilant. It's suprising, but building these really made the difference for me. I usually built them after the second or third enemy wave has been defeated. Also, I devote everything with the exception to these 3-5 ships to economy and research (the later for the economy upgrades). It's worked fairly well so far.
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Post by grant on Oct 2, 2006 9:37:45 GMT -5
Have you been able to take out two allied expert vagyr as hiigara yet?
I am planing on trying that tonight...
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 2, 2006 10:40:13 GMT -5
I haven't tried two V experts yet. But I plan to hopefully tomorrow.
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Post by grant on Oct 2, 2006 10:43:11 GMT -5
Ok...just wondering....
Ty have you managed this yet?
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Post by Chad Manning on Oct 2, 2006 12:55:06 GMT -5
Not to interrupt, but I just ordered my copy of HW2 and it should hopefully be here by teh time I get back from Boston!
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Post by grant on Oct 2, 2006 21:09:35 GMT -5
Well I did it…as hiigara I just defeated two expert vagyers allied together.
I did it by including 6 gunship vetts and building 3 destroyers with my starting officers rather then building a carrier. After that I went back to my typical strategy of building tones of destroyers, minegun vetts, and mine layer vettes.
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Post by Rabbit on Oct 3, 2006 0:10:42 GMT -5
Very Nice. So, at what point did you build the vettes? the destroyers? What was your strategy?
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