Patriot Act Defeated

[Adonna]

"Extreme Conservative in "some" circles" is what she said.

[Adonna]

Okay, police can conduct an immediate search of your car if they have probable cause, give you that, but they can't follow it up with a search of your house if they don't find anything in your car, they have to get a court order to go any further. Maybe there should be a compromise like that, tap my phone for a week, if you don't find anything lay off or get a court order. I don't have anything to hide either way.

But I still don't see the problem with wanting to know what I check out at the library .

[glow=purple,2,300]Ty must have just posted this to see what would happen, now he is laughing at us, I can see it now. ;D [/glow]

[Vable]

Hey guys, I've been making the trip home to Dallas from Austin, and then spent all day shopping and wrapping, and such. Going to bed.. This week will be busy.

Though, I posted the question initially just to see where my friends stood in the world of things. I'm only now going through discovery of what I believe as far as politics. So in honesty, I didn't post it as bait to start a debate. Though from what I've read, I can see where some of it I agree and some I disagree, and some there is room for my opinion to go either way.

I'm not sure, I could quickly summerize how I feel, since I'm still sorting out what I think of the issue. Though, in short, I do believe I was mostly happy to see the bill defeated. Though the issue is obviously alot more complex than saying it was 100% good or bad to see it go.

Anyways, I'm completely obliterated from the past few days, so heading to sleep. I hope Chad and Garrett feel better soon. Sorry to hear your not feeling well.
If it's any consolation, as soon as i checked out, my alergies have started kicking I disagree... I think something is in the air.. meh. Feels like I've been chilling with cats all day, and I've been no where near one. blah.

Love you guys, merry christmas. See you soon -hugs-

~Tyjer

[grant]

adonna said:

Maybe there should be a compromise like that, tap my phone for a week, if you don't find anything lay off or get a court order.

In the 1978 bill that restricted the presidents power, in thses kind of areas there was a provision that the president can issue a wire tap for 15 days during a wartime situation with out seeking out a court order. Beyond that he must seek out a cort order.

If the patriot act were 100% repealed he would still have this.

[Chad Manning]

Thanks for the info Grant. That is what the Senate is focused on right now. The fact he used this power 15 times during his term. You would think the Democrats had something better to do than to challenge teh president on using a power that was granted by a bill almost 30 years ago. But then again, it goes with their theme...

My question is this: If the patriot act made it so easy to tap phones and such, why did the president have to authorize 15 wire taps? It must not be that easy (meaning there must be some checks and balances or he would not have had to exercise this power and we would see it all over the place.)

[Chad Manning]

If anyone is interested in the facts here, here is the verbiage of the patriot act:

www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

Also, the Patriot act was not 100 % repealed. Most of it modified old acts and therefore will remain in place. Also, none of it was repealed. Several provisional sections were up for renewal. The Senate voted not to renew these provisions. That's all that happened. You would think it was a lot more based on how the Media is presenting it all (liberal b@$t@rd$). ;D

[Chad Manning]

I found it interesting that it didn't "give any new powers, merely amended teh wording of teh 1978 act to include more modern sources. From my reading it does not say anywhere that a wire tap can be done without a court order. Further, only foriegn students can have their studies and research tracked. Sounds good to me. Not sure how any of this affects the average citizen. In fact most of it is against foriegn students and claifying acts already in place.

Then again i am really tired and sick, so maybe I'm missing something.

[grant]

admin said:

The fact he used this power 15 times during his term. You would think the Democrats had something better to do than to challenge teh president on using a power that was granted by a bill almost 30 years ago.

What was brought out into the open on Friday was not that the president was using powers which were allowed by the 1978 act but that he was interpreting the patriot act to allow him to establish and maintain wire taps on us citizens who were talking abroad. This lasted beyond the 15 day period allowed during war times, they never received judicial approval, and they were spying on American citizens. That is why such a fuss has been made…Now regardless to should the administration of the president should be allowed to make these wire taps for the sake of national security, it must be ensured that he is following the law. If congress wishes to grant him this power then fine let him do it, but from what I have read it dose not seem as though that what he has done falls within any legal boundaries that have been given to him, and we can not have a dictator style government here where the president acts above the law.

[grant]

admin said:

I found it interesting that it didn't & quot; give any new powers, merely amended teh wording of teh 1978 act to include more modern sources.

Removing restrictions on powers that are currently out there essentialy is the same thing as granting new powers.

admin said:

From my reading it does not say anywhere that a wire tap can be done without a court order.

And yet the Bush administration has interpreted it to say that they can get a wire tap with out a court order.

[grant]

Now look what you made me do...here I was trying not to get into this all here on the boards...Ok I am done now...if you want to discuss it more then I would be happy to in person.

[Rabbit]

black ones taste yucky....green ones taste like bubble gum (catepillars). 102 temperature, so I'm alloted to say things like this. Just be glad it's coming down

[Chad Manning]

Yeah, I think I almost kicked it.

[grant]

adonna said:

"Extreme Conservative in "some" circles" is what she said.

Next time your mom is in town I am going to make a foil hat to wear when I go over there, to protect me from the government using it's unauthorized wire taps to read my thoughts.

[Chad Manning]

Not only the government, but the aliens too. Its a conspiracy.

[Vable]

haha, I love you guys ..tin foil hats.. I want in!